{"id":471,"date":"2013-01-20T19:40:00","date_gmt":"2013-01-20T19:40:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/briebeau.com\/thoughty\/2013\/01\/20\/gaming-as-women-paizo-publishing-pathfinder-interview-with-judy-bauer\/"},"modified":"2021-11-16T00:42:10","modified_gmt":"2021-11-16T05:42:10","slug":"gaming-as-women-paizo-publishing-pathfinder-interview-with-judy-bauer","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/briebeau.com\/thoughty\/2013\/01\/gaming-as-women-paizo-publishing-pathfinder-interview-with-judy-bauer\/","title":{"rendered":"Gaming as Women – Paizo Publishing & Pathfinder – Interview with Judy Bauer"},"content":{"rendered":"

I’ve decided to put up a trailing backlog of my posts. From now on, after one-two months of my posts being hosted on Gaming as Women, they will be posted here on BravoCharlieSierra. I still suggest directing any comments to the main site, and recommend visiting Gaming as Women to read the articles by other amazing authors like Filamena Young, Jessica Hammer, Elin Dast\u00e4l, Renee Knipe, and Monica Speca.<\/i><\/b><\/b><\/p>\n


This post was originally posted on Gaming as Women on December 7, 2012.<\/i><\/b><\/h1>\n

<\/p>\n

Paizo Publishing and Pathfinder \u2013 Interview with editor Judy Bauer<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/h1>\n

<\/b> <\/span> <\/span> <\/span> <\/span> <\/span> <\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/b><\/b><\/h1>\n

I have been incredibly lucky to have the opportunity to do an e-mail interview with Judy Bauer, an editor at Paizo Publishing. Judy primarily does editing for Pathfinder, and she has been kind enough to provide us with some extensive and awesome responses to our questions about her history, being a woman in the industry, and her work at Paizo. Thank you so much to Judy for her time!<\/span>
<\/span>
Could you tell us a little more about your work at Paizo, and what books and systems you\u2019ve had the opportunity to work on?<\/span>
I\u2019m an editor at Paizo, which for us means both copyediting and checking more developmental issues like clarity of rules, in-world continuity, plausibility of encounters, and gender balance\/stereotypes. I started in 2010, and work on about every product line with words save Pathfinder Tales, so that\u2019s every hardcover from the GameMastery Guide onward, every Adventure Path from Kingmaker onward, half the Pathfinder Scenarios from Season 1 onward, not to mention Pathfinder Campaign Setting books, Player Companions, Pathfinder Cards\u2026 It\u2019s getting to be a long list!<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>What is your favorite project you\u2019ve worked on at Paizo? <\/span>
Probably <\/span>Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide<\/span>, partly because I learned so much about our campaign setting in the process (I love that in the same setting you can fight dragons, dinosaurs, and undead aliens), and partly because it was a chance to reexamine the setting and tweak some aspects that weren\u2019t working or that didn\u2019t make sense in retrospect.<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/b>more after the cut…<\/i><\/span><\/span>
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<\/span><\/span>Did you play RPGs growing up? If so, what kind of experiences did you have as a female gamer?<\/span>
Oh, totally. My dad had a lifetime subscription to Dragon, the red box, and a random selection of AD&D hardcovers that I browsed as a kid. He didn\u2019t game himself, but loved that that I was interested in these books too. I first got a chance to play D&D when I was about 13 or so, was immediately hooked. I gamed whenever I could through grad school and now again that I\u2019m working at Paizo, using whatever rule set the GM wanted to run.<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>I\u2019ve had a couple bad experiences with pencil and paper RPGs (the worst being with another player who thought it would be a fun plot twist to mind control and rape my character, without clearing that with me). But I haven\u2019t had anyone be condescending about my rules knowledge since junior high, and haven\u2019t had problems with players being creepy since high school. I\u2019ve mostly gamed with friends, though, and a good half of those groups included other women, which I\u2019m sure makes a difference.<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>My one venture into MMOs, in contrast, really opened my eyes about how abusive and misogynistic gaming culture can be. There\u2019s nothing like logging in to a screen full of graphic descriptions of your character (or you) being raped, complaining about it on some forum, then being flamed for having the audacity to be disgusted, you know? And, my bad luck, I\u2019d picked an MMO that was totally <\/span><\/b>unmoderated. I assembled some sympathetic players, and we started documenting incidences of in-game rape while campaigning the game\u2019s creator to deal with the problem (he finally implemented an ignore option). I\u2019m grateful for these allies, and glad I stuck it out and took action instead of walking away after the first time I was targeted, but wouldn\u2019t wish that on anyone. It was really frustrating and demoralizing at the time, and definitely made me less excited about trying other MMOs.<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/b>Do you have any favorite RPGs? If so, why do you like them? <\/span>
I\u2019m pretty agnostic about rule systems\u2014I\u2019ll play about anything, including a friend\u2019s homebrew rules with 42 (!) attributes, as long as the GM is good\u2014and I\u2019ve mostly played in homebrew settings. That said, I do have a soft spot for a few RPGs:<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>AD&D<\/span>: This is the game I grew up with, and the system used in my longest-running campaign\u2014my first RPG crush, I guess.<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>Call of Cthulhu<\/span>: I love the setting, the gonzo concept, and the fact that because of the sanity mechanics, you\u2019re not trying to win\u2014you\u2019re trying to lose as slowly as possible.<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>Exalted<\/span>: The rules are so simple, the powers are intriguing, and you\u2019re rewarded for doing crazy fantasy-superhero stunts!<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>Pathfinder<\/span>: Every though I live and breathe this game every day, I\u2019m still super excited about it (gripplis as PCs! Exploring the Crown of the World! Exploring other planets!). And I GMed for the first time using the <\/span>Pathfinder RPG Beginner Box<\/span>!<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>As a woman in the gaming industry, how has your experience been in regards to finding work and getting recognition? Were there any particular challenges you experienced? <\/span><\/b>
I entered the game industry somewhat by chance, having previously worked in textbook development, so my experience isn\u2019t that wide. But I feel really fortunate to work at a company that values my perspective as a woman, and to have managers who trust me and back me up if I have concerns about some aspect of a product, and who push me to put myself forward at seminars and conventions. Public recognition is actually something that I\u2019m still getting used to, since textbook writers and editors try to be pretty invisible.<\/span><\/b>

<\/span><\/span>Do you think that women in the industry need to support each other more? What do you think is being done in the industry to make female contributors more welcome?<\/span>
Again, I can\u2019t speak for the industry as a whole, but I know in Paizo\u2019s design contest, <\/span>RPG Superstar<\/span><\/a>,  we\u2019re always cheering for women who make it to the top\u2014the top people are our future freelancers, and sometimes our future coworkers. Additionally, several of our developers put quite a bit of effort into mentoring new freelancers, helping them strengthen their skills so they\u2019ll be prepared to take on more complicated assignments, and we try to promote our freelancers whenever we can\u2014like the awesome up-and-coming writers Savannah Broadway, Amanda Hamon, Tracy Hurley, Melissa Litwin, Amber Scott, and Christina Stiles!<\/span>
Finally\u2014this isn\u2019t anything new, but I think it bears saying\u2014treating other women as allies instead of competition can really improve the work (and con) environment and make it friendlier toward women. RPG publishing can still be a boys\u2019 club, though it\u2019s getting better; I find it very reassuring knowing others will back me up if I need to call shenanigans on something, and am glad to support them as well.<\/span>

<\/span><\/span>Paizo appears to have a lot of diversity in their management and contributors. Do you think it helps result in a better, more representative product? <\/span>
It certainly helps! We want to see characters and settings that reflect ourselves, you know? And having been outsiders in various ways, we want to bring more people into our world.<\/span>
Of course, being diverse in one dimension doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re automatically inclusive across the board, even if you have the best of intentions. You really have to be alert to both opportunities for inclusion and warning signs that you\u2019re excluding people or could cause offense, which can be hard when you\u2019re also facing tight deadlines.<\/span>
Feedback from our audience has been important for helping us improve, too. When we hear from fans that they appreciate interesting queer characters in adventures, a location doesn\u2019t have as many female characters as they\u2019d come to expect, or an encounter is potentially offensive or extremely upsetting, it helps us become more observant and strengthens our commitment to being more inclusive in the future.<\/span>

<\/span><\/span>When you are working on Paizo products, do you take gender representation and how women are portrayed into consideration? <\/span>
Definitely. I try to keep that in mind all the time, to maintain gender balance in products and make sure female characters fill as wide of a variety of roles as the male characters\u2014that they\u2019re not always just victims, or villains, or prostitutes, or dead in the backstory.<\/span>
This isn\u2019t a policy I created; Paizo has always been committed to having balanced representation of women in its products. Half of our iconic characters for the character glasses are women, and in rules text and examples the style is to alternate between male and female pronouns to mix things up.<\/span>
When I started, though, I noticed that while there were almost always female characters in adventures and in the campaign setting products, sometimes there weren\u2019t very many, or they were all in the background, or all monsters. I was still fairly new and building trust with the developers, so I began counting male and female characters in products I was editing to back up my intuitions, and going to the developers with the numbers. A lot of them were surprised to learn the actual proportions of male to female characters in turnovers\u2014perhaps because they\u2019re are all men and used to seeing fewer female characters in RPG products, \u201csome\u201d female characters instinctively felt like \u201ca lot\u201d to them.<\/span>
There was a little resistance to revising for gender balance, for the very fair reason that if you have to change characters\u2019 gender or backstory during editing, at the end of the process, there\u2019s a risk of introducing errors to a product. And sometimes your choices are limited because of the art ordered for characters. But my boss backed me up, and people gradually got into the habit of balancing characters during development, before I\u2019d even see it. They also started giving feedback about gender balance to writers, which has helped as well\u2014it\u2019s so much easier if it\u2019s there from the beginning. We\u2019re still fine-tuning the process, but I think we\u2019ve made real improvements.<\/span>

<\/span><\/span>What do you want to be known for in your career? When people think of \u201cJudy Bauer\u201d, what would you like their first thought to be?<\/span>
\u201cAdding women to adventures since 2010.\u201d<\/span>

<\/span><\/span>Do you have any suggestions for women looking to work in the game industry? <\/span>
I suspect the barriers differ a lot depending on what part of the industry you\u2019re interested in\u2014experience in other sectors will get you further as an editor or graphic designer than as a game designer, developer, or writer. For the latter three, writing groups and design competitions can be very helpful ways to get feedback on your work and strengthen your skills, and community publications are a great way to  build up a portfolio (for would-be Pathfinder writers and developers, we always recommend Wayfinder and <\/span>RPG Superstar<\/span><\/a> in particular).<\/span>

<\/span><\/span>Of course, Kickstarter now provides an alternative route to entering the field and building a portfolio. While we hear most about new designers breaking into the industry, it\u2019s a great opportunity for editors and graphic designers, too\u2014you\u2019re needed to make the game designers\u2019 ideas shine!<\/span>
<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

<\/span>
It was a great experience to communicate with Judy and learn about her career. I\u2019m looking forward to seeing more of her work with Pathfinder! Thanks, Judy!<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I’ve decided to put up a trailing backlog of my posts. From now on, after one-two months of my posts being hosted on Gaming as Women, they will be posted here on BravoCharlieSierra. I still suggest directing any comments to the main site, and recommend visiting Gaming as Women to read the articles by other … Continue reading “Gaming as Women – Paizo Publishing & Pathfinder – Interview with Judy Bauer”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[390,374],"tags":[28,17,150,15],"class_list":["post-471","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-archive","category-interview","tag-briecs-on-design","tag-gaming","tag-gaming-as-women","tag-rpg"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paHOcG-7B","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":475,"url":"https:\/\/briebeau.com\/thoughty\/2013\/01\/gaming-as-women-saying-no\/","url_meta":{"origin":471,"position":0},"title":"Gaming as Women – Saying No","author":"Beau J\u00e1gr Sheldon","date":"January 20, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"I've decided to put up a trailing backlog of my posts. 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