Note: Today seems pretty packed with pics because this particular style of design and art appeals to me a lot, so please excuse this indulgence.
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Tell me a little about yourself and your work. What’s your background like and how has it led you to Dissident Whispers?
My name is Jeremy and I did the layout for ‘Hopebringer’ and ‘Rhemati’s Spring’ for DW. I’ve been tabletop gaming for around 6-7 years and creating stuff for around 3 years. I am a Warden (moderator) on the Mothership discord and active in a few others. One day “Silver Goat” posted up a request seeking volunteers for a BLM project, as a mixed race man (black and white if it matters) who lives in a rural area I had been struggling to find my place in the protests, and this seemed like the perfect opportunity to get involved.
The interior of Dissident Whispers, on the pages for Hopebringer, showing a diagram of an arena.
What other projects have you worked on that you’ve brought forward knowledge to working on Dissident Whispers?
I have been working on writing and laying out a Mothership Hack called Gordinaak for way to long, and recently released a very dumb nega tower called ‘Why is there a Wizards Tower in this Dump?’ on Itch with my writing partner.
Tell me about Dissident Whispers. What kicked off such a project concept and how did it come together? What’s the pitch?
Dissident Whispers is a collaborative compilation of adventures for various systems. For me, it all started when I saw a message on Exalted Funeral’s Discord looking for volunteers to do various pieces for a project. As we were talking about logistics the projects founder, Silver Goat, mentioned posting on the Mothership Discord. It just so happened that I warden there (moderate) so I reached out to Sean Mccoy about it and then it just kinda took off. As far as a pitch goes I’m pretty terrible at that so I guess it’s a book with a bunch of dungeons and adventures so anyone who plays games needs it.
The interior of Dissident Whispers showing the Mirstone Manor adventure – on one page, a detailed map, and on the other, an unusual pink creature.
How is planning the content of such a project impacted by the increased focus on inclusivity and a specific message?
I think for everyone involved it was different, some people made things that were topical while others did stuff that was standard adventure fare. For instance one of the adventure’s I did layout for, Hopebringer, was very stick it to the man and defeat the oppressors.
What are some examples of the adventures in Dissident Whispers that players will have to dig into?
There are soooooo many, I did the layout for Hopebringer, and Rhemati’s Spring, both very different, both system agnostic. There are some really interesting ones for Mork Borg, and I actually played one for Mothership called Ghost Ship, on the night we finished everything, which was amazing.
The interior of Dissident Whispers, focusing on the College of Acoustic Ministration, showing alien creatures and men with lobster hands.
What were some of the best parts of working on this project and putting together the collection for players to experience?
My favorite part was probably watching a flood of talented people get involved, one day it was a few people then the next the discord exploded. It was just amazing watching everything develop and how cohesive everyone was moving as a unit. I’m still in awe of what was accomplished.
The interior of Dissident Whispers showing the Snake Temple Abduction adventure, with a beautiful illustration on the right page in blue and white and a simple but useful map in blue and white on the left, along with the guiding text.
I’m very excited to share this big interview with you today! It’s an interview with the San Jenaro Co-Op about their Short Games Digest, Volume 1, which sold over 100 copies on its first day released! They also have a Kickstarter coming out on June 15, 2019 for the Roleplayer’s Guide to Heists! Today you’ll get to hear from Liam Ginty (L.G.), Ken Rountree (KR), Chris Falco (CF), Olivia Hill (OH), Galen Evans (GE), Magnus Hansen (MH), and Dyer Rose (DR)! Hope you like what they have to say!
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Q: Tell me about Short Games Digest and your role on the project! What excites you about it?
L.G.: I’m a writer and one of the mentors heading up the Short Games Digest. SGD is a collection of shortish TTRPGs made by a variety of designers both new and old that serves as our flagship project for getting new writers published in the industry. I really love the collaborative process of the project – everyone chipping in to create something better than any one of us could, I also really enjoy reading everyone’s games – some first time designers have made some really excellent work and it’s been a joy watching some folx grow so fast and so much over the course of the volume. KR: I’m a writer for the first two Short Games Digests. Specifically, I wrote “The Gods Play Dice” for the first volume, and am working on something heavily cat related for the second volume. The SGD is my first time writing for roleplaying at all. I’m excited because I feel we are a group of friends with a common goal rather than a traditional roleplaying company. We don’t just care about the games we make individually, we support each other in making each other’s games. The awesome mentoring and editing teams made the impossible into the achievable.
CF: I’m also a writer for it, and personally, I find the lower barrier of entry combined with the community surrounding it to be the best part. Games can be anywhere from short to long, freeform to mechanics-heavy, and it allows for a diverse number of writing styles and experience levels to go into it.
OH: I write and do some layout work for the Short Games Digest. I’m excited to see so many new names moving from repeatedly saying they want to make a game to being able to say, “I’ve made a game.” It’s really great seeing the diverse approaches the various creators have taken to this project, and all the different ways they’ve creatively answered the completely strange questions posed as part of the design process. It’s also amazing seeing creators excited to build something for the collective benefit, and not just a crapshoot of “will my game be the next D&D?” I like the idea of using the act of building games as a method of building community.
GE: I wrote my first game, “Yesterday’s Tomorrow, Today” for Short Games Digest Vol.1 and served as one of the community editors. The idea of a project of so many cool games and settings and mechanics is very exciting and I am proud I am a part of it, but the most exciting bit is being a part of a co-op with such a diverse and talented membership. Getting to collaborate with this group and work to produce really amazing and ethical work in this space is a joy.
Art from Yesterday’s Tomorrow, Today.
Rad! So what kind of content do we see in Short Games Digest, and how did you work together to make this content happen?
GE: You can expect to find over 10 RPGs, all less than 30 pages, with their own unique systems and settings. Do you want a OSR rogue-like game of brutality? Check out “Clerics”. Do you want a expressive dungeon diving game? “The Great Instrument” should be right up your alley, do you want a action packed fast moving space opera? “Yesterday’s Tomorrow, Today!” is a action packed fast moving space opera. Do you just want a expressive game of courtly romantic queer love? Try out Filamina Young’s “Lonely Knights” and have a blast.
As to how we made it come together, Liam Ginty did a lot of the organizing work, and handed out to everyone a prompt to start writing, we all chatted about concepts together, but started work writing a game, Olivia handed out a design doc to help us prepare our work for layout, and we requested Dyer to make art for our games, During the process, myself, and the rest of the editing team would receive works in progress, add comments and offer tweaks and suggestions. It was a very natural process. In many ways, the game was the baby of whomever was authoring it, with the rest of the co-op acting as support and sounding boards.
MH: One of the wonderful things is the vast array of different content you get in the SGD. I made a weird fantasy dungeon crawler unlike anything i’d made before, and when i needed to fill up another page of space for layout reasons, I got to make a short, 1-page larp for two, as well, a game about lying to your friend – two incredibly different games. And there are so many others, like the game about lonely and very queer knights, or a game about competing for a good position in a new dimension you’ve found yourself in. That said, even though we have a wide variety of games, the strangeness of some themes, and the page constraints do mean the games have a tendency towards the experimental, the new, the interesting. And our community is very inclusive, so there’s quite a bit of Queer content in there as well.
Once I finished a script, people commented on it, and helped me turn my ideas into a cohesive whole, and Galen edited it into readability. Not to mention that Dyer Rose provided the (very pretty!) pictures. It means that even though The Great Instrument is my game, it’s not just the wholly-formed child of my mind. There’s a bit of Galen’s editing style there, there’s Dyer’s visual style, and of course, the creativity of whoever gave me the theme “War In Heaven (Celestial Mecha)”
What’s it like being part of a co-op, and how do you do things like dividing responsibilities and sharing creative loads?
GE: It’s a blast! It is like having a group of friends who are all driving towards the same overall goal. We are still figuring out a lot of things as we go, but as one of the “new blood” in the TTRPG publishing scene, it has been great to have mentors like Olivia, Filamina, Magnus, and Liam. as they offer overall strategies, they give us a free hand to execute what needs to be done. Everyone is very respectful and honest about their capabilities, capacity and needs and it makes for a wonderful collaboration environment.
CF: It’s pretty cool, and gives you a lot of opportunity and ability to get yourself some experience that you might not have managed otherwise. The “prompt” system of the SGD itself means you always have a direction to aim for so you’re not just wondering what your next little game should be. Responsibilities are mostly divided into the organizers and then everyone else; the organizers say what needs to be done, and then everyone else claims what duties they want. It might sound a little unorganized, put that way, but it works out pretty well (and in a given project it might be a little more specific than that).
DR: It’s been a real blessing to get involved with these folx and form this co-op, everyone is supportive, kind and understanding (people first!) and everyone has something to offer. We complement one another’s skills well while helping to improve or teach completely new skills to others with interest.
Responsibilities are all completely voluntary, from beginning to end. Even the process of choosing to take the lead and pitch a project. For instance, let’s say someone comes in and is like “Hey! I got this idea I think is really cool! *explains project* Is anyone interested in getting in on that?” and if there is interest at that point you put a call out for people to sign up, you put together a contract that delineates things like share splitting/remuneration and any other important bits. And the people who want to work on the project sign up as a writer, artist, editor, layout, and whatever else the project might need.
At the moment, creative loads have all seemed to be managed by the people on their end, and how much they volunteer to take on. As an artist, I get a few prompts and when I’m getting my way through those, if there is still time, I’ll reach out for anyone else that needs art. Everyone knows I am but one man and can’t necessarily do art for everyone and that’s okay (again: people first.).
KR: Everyone is supportive and filled with awesome beans! We signed up for specific roles in the beginning and generally stick to them, but people step up when something outside of their expertise pops up all the time. There’s a lot of anxiety involved with a lot of newer people creating games when they maybe hadn’t published anything AT ALL before. I think we all have a good instinct on when to give constructive criticism and when somebody is just looking for some validation. As silly as it might sound to a certain type of human, someone saying, “Hey, you’re doing great. You’re going to create a game and it’s going to be cool af,” is valuable.
OH: It’s really nice because this isn’t a primary gig for any of us, so it’s something easy to step into and step out of as the time and energy arise or fall. If you need to step away for a couple of weeks, you can do that. If you’ve got time on your hands and want to pick up some slack, you can do that. It’s like Marx said, from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs. We’re all individuals with different situations. I’ve been in gaming development projects before where one person’s situation got in the way of the whole project moving forward. With this model, those same hurdles happen, but we’re more open to step in and say, “Hey, can I get that for you?” In the end, it makes for a much, much smoother development.
How does being a part of the co-op positively influence projects like the Digest, and how does it complicate it?
GE: It democratizes the work and makes it far easier to create the hype train. Also it works as an incentive to do work, As a new TTRPG designer, I’m not sure when i would have gotten off of my butt to make my game if it was not for the Digest and the timeline, and even if I had gotten off of my butt and made my game, I still don’t know layout, or how to best market an indie RPG, I would just be yet another person out there with their own system, instead thanks to the help of the co-op I can say that I am a published game designer 🙂 because of the hard work of everyone else, I am able to live my dream, and all it costs me is helping others live theirs. Where it does become complicated is in project management, we have a huge and diverse group of collaborators and there is a bit of a wrangling cats issue, however, because we have so many people it is often easy to distribute needed work to someone else if things fall through.
DR: Positively influencing projects? Man, honestly I have to say how does it not? Okay that’s your second question, and I have one of those, but seriously… It’s just absolutely amazing. You have so many kind and creative people that are all trying to not only succeed, but help you succeed, they are always there if you need a second, third, fourth set of eyes on a project, they are there to fill in gaps and knowledge, and teach you those skills if you want. And they are there to encourage you, having a constant hype train around your lil project, your lil 4 page game or your illustration is such an awesome driving force to keep going. It’s infectious, everyone is so excited, not just for themselves, but everyone else. As for the issues, Galen kinda touched on that above me here, but the main issue I notice is something we are looking into at the moment, where currently are tasks are all kind of spread across some discord rooms and Google Sheets, and it can be a bit chaotic at time. But we haven’t run into any real complications with that, currently have someone designing some work flow stuff on trello, so i expect that chaos to be toned down a lot before we get to a point where its a problem.
KR: When I first started in the Co-Op, I missed the deadline for my game due to life circumstances. I was so used to the normal boss based business model that knots formed in my stomach. I apologized seventy three point five times, and said some very self-deprecating things. But everyone was supportive and understanding. I was so used to people screaming at me over minor things from places I had worked, and here everyone was being super cool and supportive. I worked harder and came out with what I consider a high quality game. If I was working in a traditional model, I may have been fired or worse. But not only did I finish the first game, I’m completing a second as well as a microgame for volume 2.
CF: The Co-op model is honestly perfect for something like the games digest, since it allows so many different people to all just write in their own style without trying to blend everything together. If someone has a problem, it’s easy to say “No big deal, put it in the next volume” and still have plenty of games in it so we don’t need to worry about it. As others already mentioned, everyone’s really friendly and supportive, which helps people get comfortable in writing their games in the first place, too.
What is something in the Digest that you just cannot wait for people to see, whether it’s because of the work you or someone else did or just because it’s cool?
GE: Aside from all of Dyer’s amazing art you mean? It’s really hard to pick just one thing, there are so many cool things packed into this digest and I know there is something in it for everyone, so I guess I will talk about my own game, “Yesterday’s Tomorrow, Today” the thing i am really excited for people to see and try out is the game plotting mechanic I call “That Cosmic Swing” which endeavors to keep action going and keep the pace of game frenetic and fun by removing any delineation between narrative and structured time that many games have. When I run games I often have an issue of getting things moving while wrangling players, and I have come up with hacks and ideas to keep things moving and get the story going and I took those ideas and formalized them as one of the key components of the game, and to be honest, I think its super slick…
DR: Oh man. I honestly have to say, just like every last game in that book. It’s bringing in so many unique voices and design philosophies, so many unique systems that each one is its own unique treasure in its own way. Just seeing the WIPs and Write Ups in discord has left me hungering to get a copy of this into my hands, and I’ve already seen most everything in it!! I will say I think the thing I’m most excited about, to narrow that down abit more, is the number of people in this book that will be able to say for the first time “I have a published game” that’s SO COOL, especially for someone that had NO IDEA they’d be able to have that happen 3 months ago.
KR: Doogans and Dogans. That’s all I’ll say for myself. The Tony Hawk inspired RPG by CF fills me with joy just by it existing.
I love this logo!
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Thank you so much to the San Jenaro Co-Op for the interview! I hope you all enjoyed it and that you’ll check out Short Games Digest Volume 1 today!Watch out for the Roleplayer’s Guide to Heists Kickstarter mid-June!
I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing Avery Alder and Benjamin Rosenbaum about their Kickstarter project, Dream Askew // Dream Apart, two games about community and belonging as marginalized people. I hope you enjoy the interview and that you’ll check out the Kickstarter!
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Avery Alder
Tell me about the project of Dream Askew // Dream Apart. Why does this joint project matter to you as a creator? Avery: While these two games tell stories of very different communities—Dream Askew is about a queer enclave amid the collapse of civilization, while Dream Apart is a fantastical-historical game of the shtetl—they’re also united in being games about marginalized people building a community for themselves against the odds, what we call games of belonging outside belonging.
For me, this project matters because telling stories about finding our collective power and learning how to live together in community matters. And I feel really proud about how we’ve merged those themes with the mechanics: power is distributed around the table, and rather than relying on chance, everything is driven by the choices that we make together.
Benjamin Rosenbaum
Benjamin: I love the games we’ve made, I’m excited about people playing them. I think this kind of in-person game can be a great space for learning and exploring, and I think it’s cool that these games celebrate the agency and struggle of communities with complicated relationships to the outside world, in settings that I think matter a lot.
What was your collaborative experience like on the project, and how did you handle complications or struggles of any kind?
A: Our collaboration gained momentum really slowly! Benjamin first wrote me about using the Dream Askew framework to create a game about Jewish shtetl life in 2014, and it wasn’t until 2017 that we committed to an active collaboration and co-development process. I’ve been really delighted by the ways that Benjamin’s innovations in Dream Apart have looped back to transform Dream Askew; key relationships are instrumental in defining the relationship web of the community, and they weren’t even in my original design!
B: It’s been amazing! Avery is brilliant, super nice, amazingly supportive, and has oodles of artistic integrity. She knows a tremendous amount about game design, community, and the technical praxis of creating and publishing games, and it’s been an enormous privilege to work with her. We’ve handled complications and struggles by talking through them, listening carefully to one another, and making decisions together — a process that has been strikingly full of fun and ease. I think our visions were very closely aligned from the beginning, and we also have very distinctive areas of expertise in the project. Each of us is the expert in our own game’s subject matter, so we tend to naturally defer to that expertise; and while I have a deep background as a writer and gamer, it’s my first professional game project, and Avery is one of my favorite game designers, so it’s been very easy to trust her judgement on game design and publication issues.
The Dream Askew cover.
Dream Askew
Tell me the core purpose of Dream Askew. What about it fuels your passion?
A: For me, the passion comes from building something that can be run at the drop of a hat, that tells meaningful stories, that’s legit fun to play, and that brings us closer to imagining possiblities for queer community.
I think the game is challenging in some ways! It requires players to take on a big creative load, and to jump into co-developing an apocalyptic world together. But for players who are up to the challenge, it’s a delight! The game uses lists and prompts to point players toward interesting dilemmas, and then gives them space to actually figure out how to handle them. That’s exciting! That’s what fuels my passion.
The Hawker playbook.
When you work on the project, what design elements do you keep as key priority?
A: I started work on Dream Askew in early 2013, when I was helping run a weekly, drop-in meetup group. It was queer-centering, but welcome to all who wanted to drop in and play something neat. I tried running Apocalypse World a couple times at those meetups, and it never quite worked: the sheets intimidated new players, the mechanics were slightly too dense to teach to new players in the short span of time we had each night, and the game always felt like it was cut too short. I designed Dream Askew to fit perfectly into that space: inviting, quick-paced, and perfect for weirdos. And that remains a priority. I want this to be a game that I can run at the drop of a hat for a gaggle of queers who’ve never played a roleplaying game before, and I want it to rock under those conditions.
The Dream Apart cover.
Dream Apart
Tell me the core purpose of Dream Apart. What about it fuels your passion?
B: What I really wanted was to capture the distinctive tone, setting, and underlying philosophy of Jewish fantasy and folklore, which differs from both the traditional high fantasy ethos of a titanic final battle between Good and Evil, and from the aimless-violent-vagabond ethos of sword & sorcery. I wanted to see characters who are rooted in community, in a deeply spiritual but also morally ambiguous world, a world in which evil is written with a small “e”: our own human failures of courage and compassion, rather than something alien and essentialized and external; characters who don’t wield triumphant violence to achieve their ends, but use wit, grit, and moxie to thrive in a world where they are likely to be always on the receiving end of violence; and just all the rich strangeness, cleverness, yearning, whimsy, irony, self-criticism, soul, and mystery of talmud, midrash, Yiddish folktales, and the literatures of the shtetl.
The playbook for the Klezmer.
When you work on the project, what design elements do you keep as key priority?
B: I think the main priority is capturing that spirit described above; other priorities include making it an accessible game with elegantly simple mechanics, concise design, and very rich fiction, keeping players supported in story creation so they always have something to fall back upon and aren’t left hanging if the flow of creativity stutters, and supporting a social contract that centers everyone feeling safe and curious and excited and connected.
The sigil for Dream Askew.
Dream Askew
What have been some of the most vital elements of growth in Dream Askew over the past five years, mechanically and thematically?
A: Mechanically, there are two ways that the game has changed that I think are the most vital: the introduction of the community worksheet, and the introduction of key relationships for every character role. These two changes shift the story of Dream Askew in the direction of community, relationships under pressure, and questions of belonging. The game feels like it contains a deeper treatment of its themes, rather than a more aesthetic, surface-level treatment of what it means to belong to a queer enclave. Key relationships were a piece of the design that Benjamin first introduced into Dream Apart, which I was so excited to borrow back for the apocalypse.
Thematically, I think the biggest difference isn’t actually with the game, but with the real world that I’m going to be releasing the game into. The idea that apocalypse was a contemporary force which operated in waves at the margins of civilization, that the digital realm would factor into not only the collapse but also what came next… in 2013 this was closer to science fiction. In 2018 it feels startlingly timely to be talking about. I talk about this more in the design notes I’m releasing alongside the game, but I think it’s chilly how much more real the world of Dream Askew now feels for me and my friends.
The Outliers zine, which is a stretch goal reached on the Kickstarter, includes additional game materials.
What elements of queerness speak the most to you personally, and to your experience in games, that you have brought forth in Dream Askew?
A: I think there’s a bit of misdirection at play in how Dream Askew portrays queerness. Character creation opens with a prompt to choose from a list of strange and unprecedented genders, and to think visually through physical descriptions and wardrobe combinations. Queerness feels like a flashy aesthetic project. And that’s definitely a real part of the game, one that it’s fun to play around with! But queerness is also the relationships you attempt to hold in balance, and it’s the fact that everyone has a different kind of lopsided power that both contributes to the community and also puts them at odds with it. The Iris is a potential healer, but also an unsettling psychic weirdo. The Hawker is a resourceful provider, but also a territorial profiteer. The Stitcher is an engineering genius, but also a strange recluse. The drama of the game comes from watching how these people who hold sway in the community tug its ideals and character back and forth.
The Dream Apart sigil.
Dream Apart
What were some of the elements of Jewish fantasy and folklore that you personally felt deeply about including in Dream Apart, and how did you include them?
B: Most people are familiar with a kind of Sunday School version of the Hebrew Bible, in which the Divine is a kind of mathematically omniscient and omnipotent Santa Claus whose job it is to make everyone be good. A cursory glance at the world around you should make it clear that this doesn’t make much sense. In fact the story (or rather stories) that the texts suggest are much weirder. The God of the Tanakh is volatile, mysterious, numinous, and alien; the midrashim and the Kabbalah make this weirder still, with a fractured Divinity in exile from Itself, and a universe-altering magic inherent in the smallest human actions (it’s not that much of a stretch to say that in the Lurianic Kabbalah, when mom lights the candles Friday night she is literally healing a tiny bit of the sundered Godhead). The psychic maelstrom of Apocalypse World (and thus of Dream Askew) is the closest thing to this theology that I’ve found in any game; it feels a lot like what Moses encountered at that bush in Midian. Magic in games tends to feel like engineering at best, and more commonly like ordering from a menu at Denny’s. Gods are either absent, or they’re statted-up dispensers of plot tokens and buffs. I wanted a kind of magic that would be terrifying, wondrous, unsafe, inchoate. I also wanted it to be tied deeply into the story’s drama of moral agency, because so much of Jewish tradition is about wrestling with complex moral questions that have no easy answers. Temptation, solace, power at a price, rebuke, reconciliation, grudges, forgiveness, these things are not just part of the social drama, they’re also central to the meaning of the Unseen World. A demon that just wants to try and kill you is not nearly as interesting as a demon that wants you to betray yourself. A golem isn’t just a monster, it’s an allegory of freedom and servitude, the limits and risks of violent self-defense and of human knowledge. A dybbuk isn’t just a possessing spirit, it’s one with an agenda and unfinished business.
The sheet for the Shtetl for Dream Apart.
Were there any unique challenges for approaching the subjects of Jewish culture and beliefs that are not addressed often enough or respectfully enough in popular media?
B: To the extent that shtetl culture is addressed in popular media at all — think the musical-theater and cinematic versions of Fiddler on the Roof and Yentl — it tends to be in a sentimental, rose-and-sepia-tinted, elegiac frame, ignoring a lot of the complexities and real-world grittiness. Non-Jews are usually offscreen menaces (though to be fair, one of Tevye’s daughters does marry one); economics is flattened into a virtuous poverty; and in general, the viewer is encouraged to see the events as a kind of hagiographic ancestral origin story. (The original texts are grittier and sometimes queerer than their tamed stage & cinematic versions, too — there’s a good argument that Singer saw his Yentl, who keeps the name Anshel at the end of the story as opposed to putting a dress on and running off to America, as a trans man.) At one point Avery asked if we should find a more Yiddish-looking font for the Dream Apart playtest kit; I responded that I really liked using the same one we use for Askew, to get away from that coy sentimentality and ram home the point that this, too, was a gradual apocalypse, with — for its characters– the same apocalyptic immediacy.
Avery writing notes.
One last…
Beyond basic structural elements, what are some pieces of Dream Askew // Dream Apart that are similar or contrasting – mechanically and thematically?
A: I think one of the most interesting contrasts—and one I haven’t talked about anywhere yet—is in how the two games approach supplemental reference materials. Since Dream Apart is historical, its reference materials need to offer up specific, tangible answers: here’s what that word means; here’s a plausible Russian surname from the era; here’s the river you’d walk alongside. Benjamin is working hard to make resources that feel thorough while remaining compact. On the other hand, Dream Askew is speculative and built upon a queer epistemology. Its reference materials need to do much the opposite, to reject a single definition in favour of pitching the question back to players in an encouraging way: that’s a great question, what do those words mean? My challenge is being exploratory and playful without coming across as hostile or opaque.
The Dream Askew // Dream Apart book and illustration.
Hi all, today I have an interview with Terri Cohlene and her son, Ross Cowman, designers of BFF! BFF! is currently on Kickstarter and is a game about girlhood, friendship, and adventure – it looks like such a fantastic time, and I hope you love hearing what Terri and Ross have to say about it! FYI: This game is nearing the end of its Kickstarter and could super use some support – please share and consider backing an interesting new project that has a diverse cast of characters to play!
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The Kickstarter video is so good! So much happy!
Tell me a little about BFF. What excites you about it?
Terri: Finally! After all this time, it’s getting out into the world! BFF! is a role playing game about friendship, girlhood, and adventure. Originally I wanted to create a game about friendship that girls would love. Turns out, lots of people (young, old and of different genders) are having fun getting into that mindset.
The art is fantastic and provides a backdrop for all kinds of great adventures, from school to sleepovers to summer camp to road trips to just hanging out at the mall.
Ross: Yes, all of those things. And it is really cool to be be working with my Mom, and all of the other folks on the team. BFF has so many people’s wonderful ideas in it!
As a design nerd: I’m excited to be using boardgame techniques to make a role playing game. I think this design space has a ton of potential to bring story gaming to a new audience that maybe didn’t feel like they had access before.
BFF! really does look like a combination of a board game and a roleplaying game, and I think that’s awesome!
BFF! seems to be almost a board game + story game hybrid. How did this design come about?
T: Maybe that happened because I didn’t know what I was doing. I started the ball rolling and, because my expertise is “story,” that’s where I began. I was thinking about what was important to ‘tween girls, and, Bingo! Friendship, of course. Then I shared my idea with Ross and he fine-tuned the game design, plus we brainstormed A LOT to get the results we have now. The landscapes were kind of obvious, except the fabulous details we ended up with were totally inspired by the artists and everyone else on the team.
R: When my mom brought me her idea my first thought was to hack Fall of Magic somehow to make this work. We eventually added some unique mechanics like charm bracelets and friendship cards to specifically support the friendship theme.
Speaking of friends, look at all these awesome friends!
Where are the character concepts and fictional structure being drawn from? Have have you come up with mechanics that connect those characters?
T: The brains of Cowman/Cohlene! Then we added the creativity of the rest of Team Deernicorn. Welcome to our world!!
R: Terri and I came up with initial ideas, then bounced them off everyone else in the team who added their own stuff to the mix. We wanted to have a balance of urban and rural, of indoor and outdoor, of crowded and spacious…
The characters are connected explicitly at the start of the game through the charm mechanics. Everyone trades charms which represent things our characters like about eachother.
The art for BFF! is really adorable, done by artist Veta Bahktina.
The charms sound so cool! What is their function mechanically, and what makes them important narratively?
T: The charms sound cool because they are cool! I initially had the idea of actual charm bracelets that best friend players could even wear between play sessions. While a nifty idea, it wasn’t practical. At all. (Ross wisely pointed this out!) Then we briefly considered having charm necklaces that the friend tokens could wear. Again, not practical. So we ended up with bracelet templates and custom charms brilliantly designed by Taylor Dow. They represent traits or memories that the friends like about themselves or each other. Throughout the game, there are opportunities to add charms, gift them or get rid of them, each time explaining why you are taking this action. They add to the depth of understanding, growth, and bonding (& fun!) that happens during play.
R: The charms are the biggest mechanical deviation from Fall of Magic and really crucial to getting players into the friendship mentality at the start of the game. At the start of the game we each take turns selecting a charm for ourselves and talking about how that charm represents something we like about our character. Then we go around a second time and each give a charm to another character and say something we like about them. Between each hangout each do another charm scene which functions as a kind of mini-debrief in the middle of the game.
The BFF! box art is so pretty and colorful. I love seeing all of the characters on the cover!
You’ve had some awesome sounding playtests. Were there any unique challenges in playtest with the broad age demographics or with keeping tone? What was some of your favorite feedback?
T: Not really. It’s been pretty easy to get into the middle grade mindset, whether that means imagining an older or younger (or same age) alternate self. Once that’s set, the playing field seems to be pretty equal. Favorite feedback? “I love it! It’s my new favorite game!” Or maybe, “You want to be an eggplant? Be an eggplant!”
R: We’ve had consistently awesome playtests, people grinning, laughing, and just having a really fun relaxing time roleplaying these friendships together. Some of the kids from the YWCA playtest group told us after they were really inspired to make their own characters and hangouts for the game. For me, inspiring some of these young women and gender-queer youth to become future game designers, is the best possible feedback I could ask for.
The gorgeous map/game board in BFF! is colorful and compelling!
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Wow! Thank you so much to Terri and Ross for the interview! I hope you all enjoyed reading and that you’ll skip on over to the BFF! Kickstarter page to check it out, and share this article with your friends! There’s a few days left to make BFF a reality, and I think it’s totally worth it.
This post was supported by the community on patreon.com/briecs. Tell your friends!
Today I have an interview with Brian Van Slyke on his cooperative board game Good Dog, Bad Zombie, which sounds like a heckin’ good time – and is on Kickstarter for a few more days! Check out what Brian has to say about his game below. Brian shared some cute dog pictures, and I wanted to note that backer levels at $75 or more help with donations to One Tail at a Time, which is a no-kill all-breed dog rescue in Chicago area. Yay! Note: There are more images of the game on the Kickstarter page, I just felt some of them didn’t read well here, so I used pictures of Lupin (Brian’s dog) instead.
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A Dog player sheets, with an illustration of a brown dog with a white chest, detailing the dog’s stats and abilities.
Tell me a little about Good Dog, Bad Zombie. What excites you about it?
Good Dog, Bad Zombie [GDBZ] is a cooperative board game where players have to bark, lick, and sniff their way through the apocalypse to save the hoomans they love. Think Homeward Bound meets The Walking Dead.
The game has been on-and-off development for three years, and I just love that it drips dogginess. My favorite thing that has ever been said about it (and any game I’ve ever made, really) comes from a preview from Everything Board Games: “GDBZ is an immersive dog-mind experience. Every single detail is saturated with flavor. It wouldn’t really surprise me if it was designed by an actual dog, or maybe a kindly werewolf. I mean that in a good way.”
Really, that’s what we wanted – to create a game that was wholesome and also a little terrifying all at once. I love how I’ll hear players shout, “I’m going to lick you!” and “I found a hooman!” and “Woof, woof!” totally normally. This game really gets people in the mind of a dog.
So what do you know about dogs, and what do you know about zombies? How are they applied in GDBZ?
I know that I love dogs, and I know that dogs love us. Having a dog got me through one of the toughest times of my life.
Brian & his dog Lupin. Lupin is reddish brown with floppy ears, Brian is bearded and wearing a flannel shirt.
I’d always had dogs growing up, but after I graduated college, my girlfriend (and now wife) was afraid of dogs. She’d never had them growing up. Chalk it up to either annoyance or persistence, but after ten years of me begging for us to go look for a dog at a shelter, she finally she gave in. And after three days of living with us, she and our dog became best friends. In many ways, I became the third wheel in the relationship. But I’m not complaining.
I know it’s a cliche to say that dogs are humanity’s best friend, but I think it’s really true. Dogs understand us on a fundamental level that I’m not even sure we understand ourselves. In many ways, I think a lot of us prefer the company of many dogs than many humans for that reason. And that’s why I wanted to make a game about dogs being amazing.
In terms of zombies, I’ve always found zombie lore fascinating. I’m a huge scaredy-cat (pun intended), and I can’t deal with horror movies, but I’ve always made an exception for zombie movies and shows. However, one thing that I learned from a friend of mine many years back, is that zombies are often a projection of our fear of an uprising of the working class. He’s a professor that studies culture and has given lectures on zombies (cool job!). And that’s the reason in GDBZ we made the zombies look super professional, wearing business suits and giving off vibes of riches and wealth. We thought it was a fun way to spin the traditional narrative.
Lupin lying on his back Lupin is reddish brown with floppy ears.
What kind of dogs can players play in GDBZ, and are various dogs different in any way?
When we first launched Good Dog, Bad Zombie, there were only a few dogs you could play as – Lupin (based off my dog) the boxer/ridgeback mix, Waine the Alaskan mix, Captain Woofster the Great Dane, and Miss Fuzzy Ears. However, because of the success of the campaign, we’ve unlocked four additional dogs: Angelica the Corgi, Willow the St. Bernard, Gizmo the Boston Terrier, and Bandit the Dalmatian.
And yes, every dog is different! Both in real life as well as in Good Dog, Bad Zombie. In the game, each dog has the same basic set of abilities and actions. However, every dog has their own unique and powerful ability, which are triggered by playing “Good Doggo” cards. For instance, Lupin’s “Snuggle” ability allows players to restock on Energy Cards. Captain Woofster’s “Hunt” ability allows him to remove extra zombies from the board. Willow’s “Sniff the Air” ability allows her to peek at upcoming scent cards and plan around them.
We’re super happy that each time you play Good Dog, Bad Zombie, you can take on a different mix of characters (and breeds) and tackle the game in new ways!
Lupin with a blanket over his head. Lupin is reddish brown with floppy ears.
How do these doggie mechanics make such an accurate and immersive experience?
This was hugely important to us when we were designing GDBZ. We wanted the game to drip dogginess. Not just in its name, but in its spirit, its art, its mechanics, and even in terms of what people say while playing.
So, for instance, you’ll hear people shout “I’m going to lick myself!” often through each game. Everything you do in Good Dog, Bad Zombie is based around and named after a dog-like action. This really gets players into the spirit and mood of being a dog pack. So, for instance, even though it’s not a rule, you’ll often hear players burst into random bouts of howling after they rescue a human.
This game is all about being good dogs, and the love between humans and dogs. So in Good Dog, Bad Zombie – dogs don’t inherently hate zombies. They’ll often be trying to play with a zombie or chase it. It’s not until the zombie threatens a live human that dogs become protective. That’s something that we think makes GDBZ unique – it’s fun and playful, with a dash of horror, all wrapped up into a zombie game.
An image of the game board showing “Central Bark” and some tokens.
What’s your favorite part of the gameplay and fictional structure of GDBZ?
My favorite part of the gameplay of GDBZ is the cooperative aspect! As we say in the Kickstarter page, there’s no room for the lone wolf in GDBZ. Players really have to help each other and strategize together to rescue the humans and protect their pack. If a player is too low on Energy cards and a zombie startles them, you might have to move the Feral Track up (and that’s how you lose the game!). Often it takes two dogs working together to get a human home safely to Central Bark without being eaten by a zombie. This is really a game where it requires everyone to win together.
My favorite part of the fictional structure of GDBZ is how we were able to slightly tweak traditional zombie lore. So, for instance, in this game, the only thing that zombies are afraid of are dog barks. So whenever your dog barks, it’ll send a zombie running away from you – often off of a cliff! Also, in GDBZ, humans are helpless and kind of dumb – and they won’t survive the apocalypse without the aid of the brave, smart, loving doggos. I feel like we were able to take territory that’s been well-tread, but put a new, fun, funny, doggy spin on it.
Lupin with a big bone. Lupin is reddish brown with floppy ears.
